Q&A: 'Under President Erdogan, we achieved a fully democratic country'

On this day 27 years ago, Türkiye’s then-prime minister Necmettin Erbakan was forced to resign by the military in what came to be known as the ‘post-modern coup’.

The new laws that the military enforced had a profound impact on the nation’s political and social life, especially those targeting the conservative community, including women wearing the hijab.

Subsequently, on June 18, 1997, Erbakan was compelled to step down from the office.

Among those deeply affected were former Member of Parliament Dr Ravza Kavakci Kan and her two sisters, who, as hijab-wearing women, were forced to seek education abroad as a result of the hijab ban.

Now, nearly three decades later, Dr Kan reflects on her journey as a Turkish woman fighting for their rights.

Having served as a member of parliament twice, representing Istanbul in 2015 and 2018, she sees a transformed Türkiye - a nation no longer “an ineffective element in a formula” but a “game-changer” on the global stage.

In an exclusive interview with TRT World, Dr Ravza Kavakci Kan delves into the implications of the post-modern coup, the transformation of Türkiye’s democracy and the discrimination faced by women wearing hijab.

TRT World: Could you discuss the process leading up to February 28, the postmodern coup, and the subsequent few years? How was a hijabi woman’s political and social life during the postmodern coup era?

Ravza Kavakci Kan: The post-February 28 period wasn’t the first time women wearing the headscarf (hijab) faced discrimination. Yet, it reached a high point due to the ban on hijabs in various universities and departments.

(Before February 28) female students wearing hijab would try to transfer to institutions where they could continue their education, but it was never a guarantee.

But after the February 28 military takeover, “institutional discrimination” against hijabi women started.

(Institutional discrimination was) similar to the conditions imposed when slavery was abolished in the United States… African Americans were told they could vote if their grandfather had voted. (But) all their grandfathers were enslaved, so that they couldn’t (vote).

Türkiye was doing something similar, not outright barring students with hijab but making it practically impossible for them to enter universities.

This institutional discrimination affected Turkish women – who represent more than 50 percent of the society — their desire for education and career, as they were kept out of the workforce and educational opportunities.

It was a heartbreaking experience to see that (discrimination) in your own country. You had to fight so much for your rights to be treated as an equal citizen.

TRT World: How did you perceive Türkiye from a societal and sociopolitical standpoint when you left, and what kind of Türkiye did you find upon your return?

RKK: In the 1990s, when we watched the news, if our prime minister or president was in an international meeting and XYZ countries’ leaders and (they) said hello…just one hello would make the news for days. We would be so happy. It (Türkiye) was like an irrelevant state with no power.

Under President Erdogan’s leadership, we achieved a fully democratic country where the military’s role is at its place, protecting borders and citizens.

What kind of Türkiye do we have right now? We have a country that is no longer just an ineffective element in the formula. But we have a country that could actually be a game-changer and game-builder. We do have to recognise that this transition took place with President Erdogan and his leadership.

Seeing the change in Türkiye of that time and today’s Türkiye is wonderful.

TRT World: How was the postmodern coup perceived in the US, and were there any positive or negative implementations you witnessed?

RKK: At that time, in the US, we had no problems (as hijabi women). Nobody questioned us because the American system of secularism was not like the secular fundamentalism of Türkiye at that time, where they did not interfere as long as religion did not interfere in their affairs.

The institutional discrimination against hijabi women in Türkiye became an internationally known fact as systematic discrimination.

At that time, the US State Department would always be critical of the Turkish government for pursuing this ban. So, I think it became a means for the international arena to let the Turkish leaders of that time know this wasn’t right.

TRT World: The concepts of Old Türkiye and New Türkiye often arise in daily politics. What has New Türkiye brought to Turkish society?

RKK: Of course, people sometimes think Old ‘Turkey’ and New Türkiye are just political arguments, but they are not.

I’m 52 years old now. When I was growing up, I had very limited dreams for the future of my country. I took my mother (an academician) as a role model. She was a woman wearing a hijab, but she had to leave her wonderful university position because she wasn’t allowed to work with her headscarf.

So, there wasn’t much I could do, and for me the state was trying to oppress me. As a child, teenager, and in my early thirties, I couldn’t dream of becoming an academic or a doctor. I couldn’t be an equal citizen.

Women in Türkiye gained the right to vote in 1934, (and) we are proud of this because it was much earlier than many developed European modern countries.

But all women, without any discrimination, especially the hijabi women, were able to get elected and serve as representatives in the Grand National Assembly only since 2015. And this is a shame. It’s an embarrassment. It’s a dark part of our history.

Unfortunately, the June election in 2015 was the first time women who wore the hijab could take the oath with those who didn’t and their male colleagues. This was after the incident where the first woman elected to the Grand National Assembly of Türkiye, my sister Merve Kavakci, was not allowed to take her oath wearing the hijab.

It was 16 years, two months, and a few days later. So this is Old ‘Turkey’ and New Türkiye. Transitioning to a New Türkiye, where we are all equal citizens, was a long and difficult battle.

TRT World: In recent years, alongside the rise of Islamophobia in Europe, hijabi women have become the new target of discriminative policies and practices. What lessons can Europe learn from Old Türkiye, which has embraced similar discriminative practices and discourses in the recent past?

RKK: Of course, this is very unfortunate. We are witnessing increasing xenophobia, racism, and Islamophobia, as you mentioned. Because it’s such a visible representation of their religious belief, women wearing hijab are often targeted. Sometimes it’s physical attacks, sometimes it’s verbal abuse, and sometimes it’s outright discrimination.

Unfortunately, women wearing hijab in France aren’t allowed to study in public schools. Even if you go as a mother to accompany your child on a field trip, you are not allowed. These are the main examples, but we also see similar situations in Switzerland, Sweden, and other European countries.

Unfortunately, we see the burning of the holy book, the Quran, which is a kind of provocation to get people to go out on the streets.

I think European countries need to realise that this colonial, orientalist mindset is not going to help their societies. They will not be at peace. And we see this in France where there’s a lot of racism and Islamophobia, and there’s all this unrest within the French nationals as well within the society.

If Türkiye could overcome this, other countries can do it as well. Especially if we’re talking about human rights and women’s rights. With President Erdogan in New Türkiye, the rights of minorities that were previously taken away have been reinstated one by one.

So, if they want a peaceful society, they have big lessons to take from Türkiye regarding the rights of minorities and majority citizens alike.